Dialogue with a Friend – part 3

FRIEND:

You are right.  We could get into a long discussion and neither of us probably has the time or energy for that.      Thanks for your note though. I know it took some time to write. And me being me I can’t help but reply at least a little more (and you might do the same, but honestly, if you don’t feel like it I will totally understand, as eventually one of us will just say, well, all right then, it is what it is).

What you said about possibly not needing to profess the name of Christ (“in this lifetime”? one might after he dies?) is interesting.  I remember DH saying something like this in college and it was quite a revelation to me at the time.  Now I believe that, and more.  At the time I thought it was an odd thing to say and I thought he was a little wacko liberal in that aspect. Ha.

Your “but I wouldn’t want to take my chances” comment is a bit bothersome.  My dad said the same thing during our talk!  He even called it “Jesus insurance.”  If people believe in God because they are afraid of him, or of the consequence of not believing, what kind of God is that?  What kind of mentality is that? I know you are not in support of people believing in God to escape hell, but rather to embrace love. Still, it seems to be built into Christianity that people still feel this fear about what might happen to them if they have “chosen poorly.” Newsflash: there is no hell. [“How do you know? What if you are wrong?” I don’t think I am. The God I know won’t send his children to eternal damnation. It is a construct of later Christianity, drawing from Dante, to have this eternal hotbed of flames and torment. Hell in the Bible was referring to a place. I’m sure you know much more than I do about Gehenna].

You said: “Ultimately, everything we know in this world we believe on faith”

This is kind of a cop out.  Surely you cannot compare believing in the fact that the earth goes around the sun to believing in the idea that a human could be born of a virgin?  One is documented, studied, something that happens every day (ok it takes a year for a full trip) and the other is a mystical event that does not occur in reality.  You can believe that it takes faith to believe in both things, but you have to admit the degree of faith varies immensely. And you are surely right – to believe the stories in the Bible you are certainly taking leaps of faith. I agree with you on that.

No I’m not strictly a man of science these days, but a little perspective to all the naiveté of my youth has served me well.  And on that note, it’s a little presumptuous of you to write my autobiography for me, ha. [what about you? Is your more devout state trying to make up for mistakes of your youth?]   I am not merely reacting to the way I was raised, but, as I explained to my parents, I am actually learning more than I was previously afforded to know.  That is, I grew up with a “the Bible says it, God says it, that’s good enough for me” sort of worldview.  How limiting is that?   Is that any way to live? How does that respect the brain God gave us?  What if the Bible contains many things that are wrong? What if other books contain the truth about God? What if the truth is out there in the world to ascertain and experience?

If people search and eventually come back to Christ, then they have good reasons for doing so.  My Dad thinks I may yet come back.  I am happy to let him believe that, but I am not wildly swinging to some opposite extreme to react to the way I was raised.  Rather, I have been in a slow, controlled, rational learning process, discovering the truth about a lot of misleading things I was raised believing (ex: many of the stories in the Bible that are the most fantastical did not literally happen (creation story, garden of Eden, flood, parting the red sea, etc)).

It has been good to feel like I am kind of stepping out of this cramped box into a bigger world where there are infinitely more possibilities, more love and tolerance, and much less fear. Oh, and far fewer “others” as well.

But I am pleased to allow you and other Christians the faith that you enjoy. I expect the same sort of tolerance in return. I’m not saying you personally are intolerant, but it is built into the religion that if you don’t subscribe to that view, you are wrong. And I’ve moved away from that, to a land that flows freely with beer, free thought, tolerance, and hand rolled cigarettes!

MY REPLY:

Thank you as well for taking the time to reply. You got me on a day when I am struggling with motivation to do other things, so replying to your reply seems like a worthwhile procrastination. I am more interested in your journey and process than I am in “re-converting” you, so thanks again for sharing.

My motivation is not fear and I wouldn’t call Jesus “insurance.” My motivation is love – for God and others. When I said I wouldn’t want to take the chance, I wasn’t so much as referring to eternity as I was to the whole spectrum of existence. I’m struggling for metaphors here, but if God is offering me a diamond ring as a gift, I would hate to settle for a cheap plastic one. I would want the very best – not out of fear of being punished for refusing his gift, but out of love and respect for how much it cost him.

I agree with a lot of what you said about hell, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it doesn’t exist. That wouldn’t be giving human ingenuity enough credit. People create hell, not God. Hell is separation from God and when people willfully choose to separate themselves, they are choosing/creating hell for themselves. Given a penthouse, some people still choose to live in the slums.

Regarding faith – sure the earth’s rotation around the sun is documented with years of empirical data, but it hasn’t always been that way. People believed for a much longer time that the sun revolved around the earth. Then this new evidence came to the surface to counter that understanding. How do you know new evidence won’t come to the surface at some point to discredit our current understanding? Furthermore, so the earth revolves around the sun? How does it do that? Whatever data and reasons you give, it still ultimately comes down to faith – you believe this reason over that one and you trust (faith) the ones who are doing the research and feeding you the data.

I think it is too bad that you were force-fed such a narrow, cramped understanding of God in your youth. I probably hate that brand of Christianity as much as you do. But there is a place in Christ that is out-of-the-box, free of fear, tolerant and free-flowing with beer. Jesus doesn’t tell we have to believe in a literal Garden of Eden, Noah’s ark or that a fish swallowed a man. He simply says, “follow me.” And if you do, your life will never be the same.